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Old 03-31-2011, 09:39 PM   #1
bluemonkey
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Won't stay on or rev over 1k

The motor will crank up just perfect, but then falls flat onto its face. The idle will stumble around 500rpm and then die. If I hold it WOT, it won't go over 1k and then it'll turn off but stay on for a bit longer. I can smell fuel, and I'm running out of ideas.

Little history, 92 chassis, was turbo'd by 786 blew turbos due to incorrect port for wastegate, ended up blowing the motor from lack of oil. Almost all unneeded items are no longer present, so I do have like 4-5 plugs that don't go to anything, 3 or so vacuum lines.

S14 motor was bought from someone on these boards, was an auto motor before. I put my s13 intake manifold, exhaust manifold, distributor and koyo on to it.

I have tried 2 fuel rail assemblies with 8 diff injectors that are known to be good. Has walboro that primes nice and loud like when I first got it. Fuel lines are run correctly. Spark is good and injectors are all clicking on time. I held it on and pulled the plug for each one and the car would run worse until I connected them back.

The car did sit with old gas for about 5-7 months, I removed about 10 gallons and replaced it with another 10 gals. of fresh 93 octane and I tossed in some octane boosted too. It shows that it has around 1/3 of a tank of gas which tells me I removed almost all the old gas.

I checked the timing, it was off by a tooth, lower chain was spot on but the upper chain needed adjusting. I had to turn the exhaust cam clockwise a little to get the chain on time. It was TDC, 1st cam lobs outwards and rotor pointing straight at 1 and notch on main pulley was 1 from the left as the pictures I've seen indicate.

I unplugged the MAF but it didn't make a diff, nor did any other sensor including knock and temp and idle plugs.

I don't have the pcv valve or anything on the outlet on the valve cover, but I've had plenty of cars where I just vented that without any issues.

I took out the Q Tuned ecu for another dohc auto ecu. I know I have an exhaust leak from where the pipe would return air intake the intake since I just chopped the pipe right next the downpipe and I have a DIY intake.

Any other ideas on things I can test to find the issue? I figure I have spark, timing, and fuel, but the fact that it won't stay on or go over 1k tells me this has to be a issue that I can't seem to find.

The car just sounds like its missing and there's blueish looking fire coming out the pipe on the exhaust where it used to piping back to the intake but once again its cut right by the exhaust.
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Old 03-31-2011, 09:42 PM   #2
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now when you say it wont go past 1k does it feel like a revv limiter or just cant physically do it


cuz so far it sounds like your timing is off
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Old 03-31-2011, 09:46 PM   #3
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Clogged fuel filter? Is this the motor you got from me?
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Old 03-31-2011, 09:52 PM   #4
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throttle position sensor or a crank shaft sensor also timing could be the issue
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Old 03-31-2011, 09:54 PM   #5
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its your timming.
thats the reason for the blue fire out the egr tube and wont stay on
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Old 03-31-2011, 10:43 PM   #6
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check plugs and yea timing
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Old 03-31-2011, 11:23 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackasspyro2 View Post
now when you say it wont go past 1k does it feel like a revv limiter or just cant physically do it


cuz so far it sounds like your timing is off
Physically can't, WOT doesn't change how the car runs or even puts load on it, it just stays on rather than dying.

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Clogged fuel filter? Is this the motor you got from me?
I considered that right after I posted this thread, I ran it without the fuel filter and it was the same thing. Yeah its the same motor.

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throttle position sensor or a crank shaft sensor also timing could be the issue
Could be throttle position sensor since the harness connects to a plug coming out from under the tps. I always though it would just plug into the plug right on the side of the tps but there isn't any other plugs in that fit that one.
Crankshaft sensor...isn't that built into the distributor on s13s?

I guess I'll have tear the front covers off and set the timing again. Maybe it was off 2 teeth or something, it stays on longer and better than it did before I first set the chain.

Plugs are new NGK's
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Old 04-01-2011, 10:10 AM   #8
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ya it seriously sounds like your timing is off

get a timing gun.if its good than pull the motor and retime the chains.my bet is your a tooth off the lower one

one lower chain tooth off is something ridiculous like 30degrees retarted or advanced(not exact number but you get my point..its a big deal.haha)
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Old 04-01-2011, 10:31 AM   #9
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Check timing again. Any backfiirng? Try another maf.
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Old 04-01-2011, 11:14 AM   #10
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my experience with a ka so far has showed me it does not like the pcv system to have any leaks from what i can tell its supposed to be a completely closed system or it wont idle right and will fall on its face mine does it to im about to fix all my vacuum leaks. i figured this out when i had it idled up to maintain a steady idle and then i un plugged the pcv and it died so make sure you have no vacuum leaks and also try taking the exhaust manifold off the head and start it with it off you might have a clogged exhaust causing to much back pressure
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Old 04-01-2011, 11:11 PM   #11
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the crank to cam timming is off not the dizzy, it happend to me before btw
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Old 04-01-2011, 11:16 PM   #12
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dekansnowman HAS A POWER LEVEL OVER 9000!!!!!!!!!!dekansnowman HAS A POWER LEVEL OVER 9000!!!!!!!!!!dekansnowman HAS A POWER LEVEL OVER 9000!!!!!!!!!!dekansnowman HAS A POWER LEVEL OVER 9000!!!!!!!!!!dekansnowman HAS A POWER LEVEL OVER 9000!!!!!!!!!!dekansnowman HAS A POWER LEVEL OVER 9000!!!!!!!!!!dekansnowman HAS A POWER LEVEL OVER 9000!!!!!!!!!!dekansnowman HAS A POWER LEVEL OVER 9000!!!!!!!!!!dekansnowman HAS A POWER LEVEL OVER 9000!!!!!!!!!!dekansnowman HAS A POWER LEVEL OVER 9000!!!!!!!!!!dekansnowman HAS A POWER LEVEL OVER 9000!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 04-01-2011, 11:22 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackasspyro2 View Post
ya it seriously sounds like your timing is off

get a timing gun.if its good than pull the motor and retime the chains.my bet is your a tooth off the lower one

one lower chain tooth off is something ridiculous like 30degrees retarted or advanced(not exact number but you get my point..its a big deal.haha)
I have a timing gun but it doesn't stay on or hold a steady enough for me to even bother trying with it. I'm gonna go ahead and replace the chain with a new one while I have it off.

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Check timing again. Any backfiirng? Try another maf.
Lots of backfiring, it would run it the weird safe mode when I d/c the maf but it acts the exact same way.

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my experience with a ka so far has showed me it does not like the pcv system to have any leaks from what i can tell its supposed to be a completely closed system or it wont idle right and will fall on its face mine does it to im about to fix all my vacuum leaks. i figured this out when i had it idled up to maintain a steady idle and then i un plugged the pcv and it died so make sure you have no vacuum leaks and also try taking the exhaust manifold off the head and start it with it off you might have a clogged exhaust causing to much back pressure
It does make a big effect on idle but shouldn't be anywhere to this amount. I created a big vacuum leak to see if it made it worse with the brake booster line and I couldn't even keep it on with it WOT. I doubt that the pcv is causing this issue though. I have like 3 vacuum lines only

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Originally Posted by mr__chingon View Post
the crank to cam timming is off not the dizzy, it happend to me before btw
The notch on the top idle sprocket lined up just perfect, will have to double check the main pulley again.

I should have time on Sunday to have fun again....

edit: forgot about the best reply, perfect pic
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Old 04-04-2011, 06:21 PM   #14
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So I have it tore down pretty good, gonna go ahead and pull the oil pan when I get home from work. There are still 2 hoses attached on the passenger side for coolant lines, I'm 99% they're for the idle valve. I figure I'll pull the cover a little bit forward and then remove them. Any better ideas on how to remove those two lines.

Will using my hoist and loosening the motor mounts give me enough room or am I going to have to remove the motor mounts?
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Old 04-04-2011, 11:05 PM   #15
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didnt wanna read the whole thing but i did read something about the motor originally being with an auto trans? correct? is it manual now? and which ecu are you using? from the manual motor or the auto one?
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Old 04-05-2011, 08:46 AM   #16
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auto ecu
originally manual car so harness and everything is setup for manual
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Old 04-05-2011, 11:07 AM   #17
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Timing or Bad CAS inside Distributor. I had the SAME problem last year. Got another distributor, made sure I put it in right (tricky).

If you need help, you can bring it to me and ill fix it
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Old 04-05-2011, 11:18 AM   #18
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Well the distributor was pulled from a running car and as soon as I removed it I placed it aside from everything to not break it. I wasn't able to install it and have the rotor pointing at #1 perfectly so I'll see what happens once I install the new chains I bought. If it still gives me trouble I'll try another dist.
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Old 04-05-2011, 11:26 AM   #19
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you sure that distributor isnt 180 degrees off?
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Old 04-05-2011, 11:55 AM   #20
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Nope, even tried switching the plugs incase it was 180 but it made it worse.
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Old 04-05-2011, 11:57 AM   #21
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and when you set it at tdc youre sure it was on compression, not exhaust
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Old 04-05-2011, 12:05 PM   #22
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it really just sounds like you overlooked something in the procedure. i would pull the distributor out, reset the timing at tdc compression and re-stab the distributor one more time just to be absolutely sure. once that is done just check the compression for peace of mind. i dont know how far off timing the car was but a compression check and/or leakdown test should tell you if there is a problem with any of the valves. the fire you are seeing is probably the fuel getting ignited while the exhaust valve is still open, which means its not closing all the way or the spark is firing at the wrong time in the cycle.
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Old 04-05-2011, 02:16 PM   #23
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I've restabbed it quite a few times already lol. I'm swapping the chain for a new one while I have the old one off and hopefully it'll be set. The exhaust cam was advanced when I first opened it up.

I'm 100% certain I had it on compression tdc with #1 cam lobes outwards and one mark the right from the left on the pulley. I set the camshaft to idle chain right on mark and made sure it didn't jump any teeth the first time and it ran a little bit better but would still die after a little while. I already have it about 80% done, just gotta drop the oil pan tonight and then button it all back up with the new chain.
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Old 04-06-2011, 04:16 AM   #24
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dont know if this is the problem but if you car is manual with a manual harness and you put a auto ecu in there it wont hold idle. once its in gear you'll have to rev it to keep the rpms up, other than that tho it will be fine. the idle will drop to around 500 then gradually die if you have this set up.
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Old 04-06-2011, 06:53 AM   #25
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Quote:
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it really just sounds like you overlooked something in the procedure. i would pull the distributor out, reset the timing at tdc compression and re-stab the distributor one more time just to be absolutely sure. once that is done just check the compression for peace of mind. i dont know how far off timing the car was but a compression check and/or leakdown test should tell you if there is a problem with any of the valves. the fire you are seeing is probably the fuel getting ignited while the exhaust valve is still open, which means its not closing all the way or the spark is firing at the wrong time in the cycle.
Drop whatever you are doing to that car, and listen to this guy. Do exactly what he tells you! He pulled me through my last timing problem and my car was running that day.
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